NATSEC Roundtable No. 17: Nashville and Peter Thiel

Peter Thiel closed his four-part Nashville lectures on October 19th with three tests for the empire that holds back the end of the world. He called the second test scripture. It is a payments thesis, and the operators reading this are already standing on the rails.

The lecture was titled “The New Rome,” the fourth of four closed-door sessions hosted by The Pamphleteer and Meriwether Academy at $100 a seat, with devices prohibited and the room asked to keep what it heard inside the building. Nathan Worcester reported from the room anyway, and his account, relayed in full within a day, is the most precise record of the night that exists. What follows leans on it, on the recordings of the first two nights that Politico obtained, and on an attendee’s account of the third.

The series ran September 28 through October 19, opening at the Grand Masonid Lodge of Tennessee on Broadway, and the first three nights built the frame the fourth one needed. Thiel cast AI regulation as the on-ramp to a one world government and accused Obama and Pope Leo of leveraging the technology’s unpopularity to boost their own, he spent a stretch of one night on effective altruism, which he said had brainwashed a share of the people building the models, and on night three he named the katechon of 2 Thessalonians 2, the restrainer that holds back the man of lawlessness, and suggested the great fortunes had a role in being it. The force to be restrained, in that telling, was globalism, with the ICC, USAID, and the SWIFT system named outright.

This is the seventeenth dispatch in the NATSEC series and the first one built on a sermon. It earns the slot because the sermon was about infrastructure.

BLUF

  • The military test is not close. The FY2027 request puts national defense at $1.5 trillion, 4.6 percent of GDP and the highest single-year level since World War II, and the Iran war that emptied the magazine we wrote about in August is the reason the number is that large.
  • The financial test is where the margin is thinnest and still decisive. The dollar is 56.7 percent of allocated reserves as of the second quarter, against a 20 percent euro and a 2 percent renminbi, and it still carries half of all SWIFT payment value while CIPS and mBridge grow from a small base.
  • The ideological test has no clean number, and Thiel answered it with geography. He named Nashville the center of a religion without a center and told the room to act like it.
  • The position of this brief: Thiel put Revelation 13:17 beside SWIFT and the reserve dollar and did not flinch, and the reading holds. The rails that restrain are the rails that would license, which makes payments infrastructure the national security question that commerce operators already sit on.

What Thiel said in the room

He opened with cities, which he treats as something nearer to the principalities and powers of Ephesians 6:12 than to any human institution, because they outlast the companies and the people inside them. He watched Mark Zuckerberg accept, from the Facebook board, that the company would one day die, and he called it a mistake to assume San Francisco will collapse under its own weight on any schedule at all; cleaning its streets, in his telling, is closer to negotiating with a demon. The city is the empire in miniature, and Spengler’s rootless city dweller, clever and practical and sterile, is its citizen.

From there the lecture traced the imperial line. Rome sits in a moral gray zone, neither Babylon nor the New Jerusalem, and its inheritance passed to Byzantium and then to the Holy Roman Empire, which Napoleon dissolved while his contemporaries compared him to the Antichrist. The War of the Spanish Succession was the last real attempt at a Catholic superpower, illustrated with Southey’s “The Battle of Blenheim,” and once the Bourbon and Habsburg question was settled, Catholic universalism never again organized Europe. Britain took the mantle, adopting Hobbes’s Leviathan as a sea power while keeping the philosopher at arm’s length, and Tennyson’s “Locksley Hall” imagined a federation of the world that bound the British to their American successors. Truman carried that poem in his pocket.

America, in Thiel’s reading, copied Rome on purpose. The Federalist Papers authors wrote under Latin names, Washington sits on the currency the way Augustus once did, and the United States may be the only truly sovereign country left, with a president who functions as the mayor of the United States and the dictator of everyone else by way of the Five Eyes alliance, Echelon, SWIFT, and the reserve dollar.

Then came the three tests. A New Rome must be the military superpower, the iron kingdom of Daniel 2:40. It must be the financial superpower that controls the rails on which the world buys and sells, which is Revelation 13:17 read as infrastructure. And it must be the ideological or religious superpower that wins hearts and minds at global scale, the territory Matthew 24:24 warns about. Russia fails the test in his view; Moscow is not Constantinople’s heir, the Bolshevik break makes the line hard to trace, and he could not say whether Putin is more a Christian or more a former KGB man.

The last movement was about violence, and then about the room he spoke in.

The United States keeps the death penalty, stands apart from the developed world for it, and polices itself as hard as it polices everyone else, which Thiel read as proof that Americans have not been gelded and have not handed off their katechonic duties. He landed the old line that America is the only country where a revolution is impossible because it is the only country without an American embassy. Then he turned to Nashville, called it the global capital of Protestantism, a religion with no center, and told the people in the seats to take responsibility at the level of ideas and institutions rather than wait for someone else to do the restraining. He kept his own caveat in place. The katechon restrains the man of lawlessness and carries, in the same body, the risk of becoming him.

The rails that restrain are the rails that would license, and the difference is the law under which the switch gets thrown.

Three tests, scored

Run the three tests against the world as it stands and the United States passes all of them, which is the uninteresting conclusion. The interesting one is where the margins differ, because the margins tell you which test is still being contested.

Element Anchor The test Where the United States stands Read
Military superpower Daniel 2:40, the kingdom strong as iron Can it break every rival by force FY2027 request of $1.5 trillion for national defense, $1.15 trillion discretionary plus $350 billion through reconciliation, 4.6 percent of GDP, the highest single-year level since World War II Passes, and it is not close
Financial superpower Revelation 13:17, no buying or selling without the mark Does it control the rails of buying and selling Dollar at 56.7 percent of allocated reserves (Q2 2026), 50.1 percent of SWIFT payment value and 81.2 percent of trade finance (June 2026), 89 percent of global FX turnover (BIS, 2025) Passes; thinnest on reserves, widest on trade finance
Ideological or religious superpower Matthew 24:24, false messiahs and false prophets Can it win hearts and minds at global scale No clean number exists; Thiel answered with geography and named Nashville the capital of a religion without a center Passes on Thiel’s assertion, which this brief cannot score

The reserve figure is the one that has moved. The dollar held roughly 71 percent of allocated reserves around 2000 and holds 56.7 percent now, and the slide has been gradual enough that New York Fed researchers spend their time explaining how much of any quarter’s change is exchange-rate arithmetic rather than central banks selling. Over the same stretch the dollar’s share of payment messaging, trade finance, and FX turnover has held or risen. Central banks have diversified what they hold. The world has not diversified how it pays, and Thiel’s second test is a test of how the world pays.

The rail that moved, and the rails that did not

The challenger rail has a trajectory, and it runs the wrong way for the challenger.

Month Renminbi share of SWIFT payment value Note
August 2024 4.7 percent (approximate) Peak, built on Russia-related flows after the 2022 reserve freeze
February 2025 4.33 percent Fourth most used currency
September 2025 3.17 percent Fifth
November 2025 2.88 percent Sixth
December 2025 2.73 percent Sixth
January 2026 3.13 percent Fifth
February 2026 2.74 percent Sixth
June 2026 3.10 percent Fifth; the dollar carried 50.10 percent the same month

Sources: SWIFT’s monthly RMB Tracker and Global Currency Tracker releases, compiled via Boundary Advisors and Trade Treasury Payments. The August 2024 peak is approximate.

The renminbi’s climb was built on Russian trade rerouted after the February 2022 reserve freeze, and the share has given back a third of its peak while the infrastructure underneath it keeps growing. CIPS cleared roughly ¥180 trillion in 2025, about $25 trillion, across 176 direct and 1,514 indirect participants, and China-Russia trade now settles mostly outside the dollar. Volume is moving onto Chinese rails inside specific corridors. The global share of payment messaging is not following it, which is the distinction that matters for anyone whose supply chain touches those corridors, a problem we worked through in Weaponized Supply Chains two years ago.

Rail Where it stands Challenger Read
Reserve holdings Dollar 56.7 percent of allocated reserves, euro about 20 percent, renminbi about 2 percent (Q2 2026) Gold and euro diversification Eroding slowly; valuation effects explain much of each quarter’s move
Trade finance Dollar 81.2 percent of SWIFT trade finance value, renminbi 8.0 percent, euro 5.6 percent (June 2026) Renminbi letters of credit in China-linked trade Dominant
FX turnover Dollar on one side of 89 percent of global trades (BIS 2025), renminbi 8.5 percent None at scale Dominant and rising
Clearing and messaging CIPS at about ¥180 trillion in 2025 across 176 direct and 1,514 indirect participants; China-Russia trade settles about 87 percent outside the dollar CIPS, Russia’s SPFS Challenger growing fast inside specific corridors
Wholesale CBDC settlement mBridge at $55.5 billion cumulative by January 2026, about 95 percent e-CNY, run by the PBoC, HKMA, UAE, Thailand, and Saudi central banks mBridge Pilot scale
Dollar stablecoins About $270 billion outstanding (June 2026), USDT about $180 billion and USDC about $72 billion; GENIUS Act signed July 18, 2025, effective January 18, 2027 at the latest e-CNY, euro stablecoins under MiCA The dollar rail extending into software

Revelation 13:17, compiled

The stablecoin row is where the second element is being rebuilt in code. The GENIUS Act, signed July 18, 2025, requires one-for-one reserves in Treasury bills and cash, and Nellie Liang and Brent Neiman estimate at Brookings that first-round net demand for bills lands between $400 billion and $2.3 trillion by 2030, depending on whether the growth comes from abroad or from money funds that would sell the same bills to buy the coins. Either way, private digital dollars become a funding channel for the sovereign, which is the stated intent.

Tennessee’s junior senator, Bill Hagerty, wrote the law and said in August that he drafted it in part to guarantee dollar dominance over digital currencies and create structural demand for Treasuries.

The same paper names the tradeoff without flinching. If stablecoins route around correspondent banking, the leverage behind sanctions weakens unless issuers and wallets can block a transaction on a lawful order, so the authors recommend requiring exactly that. That is Revelation 13:17 stated as a compliance rule. Section 3(b)(2) of the Act takes effect January 18, 2027, platforms listing Tether need a documented basis to believe the issuer can freeze funds on a US order by then, and no foreign jurisdiction had received a Treasury comparability determination as of Monday, which happened to be the day the Treasury’s own comment window closed and the day Thiel took the stage.

The banking layer underneath it is being built by Thiel’s own circle.

Erebor, the Columbus bank that Palmer Luckey and Joe Lonsdale founded with Founders Fund behind it, and which 2PM covered in January as the dragon-guarded mountain, told the OCC it intends to be the most regulated entity conducting stablecoin transactions and won its national charter in February. The restrainer is extending its rail into software, the extension carries the license switch with it, and the capital behind the extension shares a cap table with the lecturer.

Why Nashville

Thiel’s third test has no scoreboard, so he answered with a city, and he didn’t choose it at random.

Nashville has been called the buckle of the Bible Belt for generations: the Southern Baptist Convention’s executive committee and Lifeway sit in the metro, Thomas Nelson has published Bibles from the city for decades, the Gospel Music Association and the Christian music industry are headquartered there, and The Daily Wire moved its operation to Nashville in 2020.

A religion with no center still has a supply chain, and most of the American Protestant supply chain runs through one metro area.

The venue carried the same message. The Pamphleteer positions itself against corporate and progressive media, Meriwether Academy exists to build fraternal networks and boys’ schools, and the opening night was held in a Masonic lodge that opened the evening by distancing itself from the content. Thiel’s charge to the room was that the people who already own the ideas and institutions should act like the restrainer rather than wait for one.

The financial rail runs through the same state, and that is the part of the final lecture that was not theology. Hagerty wrote the law that extends the dollar into software, and two of Thiel’s three elements, the religious infrastructure and the authorship of the dollar’s next rail, already have a Tennessee address. A man who tells a room to take responsibility for ideas and institutions is usually describing a room that has already started.

Restrainer or catalyst

The tools that make the United States the katechon are the tools Revelation assigns to the beast, and Thiel alluded to this. The 2022 freeze of Russia’s reserves and the removal of Russian banks from SWIFT were the restrainer deciding who may buy and sell, and the GENIUS requirement that issuers and wallets block transactions on a lawful order is the same decision compiled into software. What separates the restrainer from the thing it restrains is not the instrument. It is the law under which the instrument is used and the breadth of the hand that holds it.

His critics make the inverse case from the same facts. The Vatican-adjacent press in March called his vision a superplutocracy that would monitor humanity in the name of guarding it, and the standing objection to the series is that the man warning about surveillance co-founded Palantir, a company whose commercial logic we laid out in The Drop Economy. Both sides are describing one machine from different ends, and the argument is over who holds the keys.

Three conditions would turn the restrainer into the catalyst, and each one can be watched. The license switch moves from a sovereign exception to a programmable default inside wallets and checkouts. The three elements migrate from a national government to a supranational one, which is Thiel’s one world government drawn as an org chart. The rails get turned inward on domestic commerce rather than outward on adversaries, which is what the mayor of the United States looks like on the day the mayor decides he is also the dictator.

What operators should do?

The second element is the one commerce operators sit on, and the third is the one they actually own. Six moves follow from that.

  1. Settlement is a choice, not a utility. Shopify, Coinbase, and Stripe put USDC on Base into Shopify Payments and Shop Pay in June 2025, with merchants paid out in local currency by default. A merchant that turns that on has joined the dollar rail’s software extension, and should know which rail it is on and under whose law it runs.
  2. Sanctions screening is now a product feature. The lawful-order obligations in GENIUS reach wallets and platforms on January 18, 2027, and OFAC exposure already sits at checkout for any brand selling across a border. Build the screening into the order flow rather than the finance team’s inbox.
  3. Corridor risk is rail risk. Hong Kong clears 76 percent of offshore renminbi payments, and China-Russia trade settles mostly outside the dollar. A supply chain that touches those corridors is settling on a challenger rail whether or not the invoice says so.
  4. Brands are the hearts-and-minds rail. Thiel’s third element is the ideological contest at global scale, and the storefront is the surface where that contest reaches a consumer every day. A publication that sells and a store that publishes are the same operation, both of them carry a flag, and we argued in December that defense itself is becoming a brand for the same reason.
  5. The restrainer funds itself through your float. Every dollar a merchant holds in a GENIUS-compliant stablecoin is backed by a Treasury bill or cash in the issuer’s reserve, which means the operator’s working capital has become part of the sovereign’s balance sheet. Price that into treasury decisions rather than treating stablecoin balances as cash with a yield.
  6. Nashville is a commerce market with a theology attached. The audience Thiel addressed owns churches, schools, publishers, and music catalogs, and it buys like a market with its own supply chain. Operators building in faith-adjacent categories should read the final lecture as a demand signal rather than a sermon.

What to watch

Seven things decide whether the second element holds through 2027, and each has a date or a trigger attached.

Indicator Date or trigger What it would signal Confidence
IMF COFER Q3 2026 release Late December 2026 A print below 56 percent sets a new three-decade low; a print above 57 percent is valuation, not buying High that it prints; moderate on direction
OCC final GENIUS rule Expected November 2026, per the Comptroller Starts the 120-day clock and sets the effective date near March 2027; a miss leaves the January 18, 2027 backstop as the operative date High
Treasury comparability determination for Tether’s home jurisdiction None scheduled as of October 19 Decides whether USDT, at about $180 billion, stays listed on US platforms after January 18, 2027 Moderate on timing, low on outcome
FY2027 defense appropriations and the $350 billion reconciliation Fiscal year began October 1 without enacted funding; Iran war supplemental reported at $80 billion to $100 billion Whether the military element is funded at the requested $1.5 trillion or settles near FY2026’s $1.01 trillion Moderate
SWIFT Global Currency Tracker Monthly A renminbi share back above 4 percent means a new corridor shock on the scale of Russia 2022 Moderate
mBridge membership and CIPS participant count Any expansion beyond the five founding central banks The challenger rail moving from pilot scale to a settlement bloc Low
Stablecoin supply against Bessent’s $4 trillion estimate Quarterly The market has sat near $270 billion to $300 billion for a year; growth from abroad is the scenario that creates net Treasury demand, growth from money funds is not Moderate

Confidence describes how reliably the indicator produces a reading on schedule, not the direction it will take. The broader monitoring posture from Monitoring the Situation still applies.

The verdict

The lecture will be read as theology, and the coverage will sort itself into the usual two piles: the billionaire with the Antichrist obsession, or the philosopher the press refuses to understand. Both readings miss the operative claim.

Thiel described the restrainer as a government that fields the strongest army, controls the rails of exchange, and wins the argument for hearts and minds, and then he looked at the room and told it that the third job was theirs.

On the numbers, the restrainer is intact. The army has been requested at a level the country has not funded since 1945, the rails carry half the world’s payment value and four-fifths of its trade finance, and the challenger rail has been losing share for two years. What has changed is where they’re building the rail. It is being built in software, under a Tennessee senator’s statute, on charters issued to banks from the lecturer’s own cap table, with a license switch written into the code because the Treasury’s economists asked for one.

The Katechon Economy is the business of holding the rails. Commerce operators do not get to choose whether they are on them. They do get to choose whether they know it, and the last Nashville lecture, read as infrastructure rather than prophecy, is the clearest account anyone has given of what being on them now means.

Peter Thiel has held a New Zealand passport since 2011, and for the better part of two years he has been tied, by the press and by his own itinerary, to Argentina. On its face that is a strange posture for a man who spent four Monday nights telling Nashville that America is the New Rome, the katechon that holds back the man of lawlessness, and that the people in the seats should take responsibility for its ideas and institutions. It is less strange once the lecture is read as a thesis about rails rather than a sermon about a country. The katechon in Thiel’s telling is not a static good. It is the empire best positioned to become the thing it restrains, and a man who believes that keeps a second passport the way an operator keeps a second rail.

His geography is what it looks like to hedge the restrainer failing, and he has been hedging since before he had a name for it. He told Nashville to stay and build. But just in case, he has the exits.

Research and Analysis by Web Smith

Sources

Deep Dive: The Abercrombie Discount

Abercrombie & Fitch sells its polo for roughly 40 percent less than it did in 1998, in real dollars, and almost nobody noticed because the sticker barely moved. That discount was not an accident of inflation. It was engineered, one supply chain decision at a time, and the 2026 supplier list the company published in August shows exactly where the money came out.

The Quarterly was the product

If you want to understand what Abercrombie charged for in 1998, you have to start with the magazine, because the magazine was what they were charging for. The A&F Quarterly launched in the summer of 1997 under the former, infamous CEO, with Bruce Weber behind the camera, Sam Shahid directing the art, and a cover price of six dollars for a shrink-wrapped book that ran past 250 pages. It arrived four times a year, it was sold at the register, and in its best issues the clothing occupied perhaps a third of the pages. The rest was Weber’s black-and-white Americana, interviews, cocktail recipes, sex columns, and a sustained argument that the person holding the book belonged to a world of lake houses and lacrosse fields that most of its readers had only seen in movies.

It is easy, with 25 years of distance, to treat the Quarterly as a scandal. It was one, eventually, and the company killed it in December 2003 after the Christmas issue drew boycotts from state attorneys general and a coalition of religious groups. But the scandal is the least interesting thing about it. What the Quarterly actually did, in commercial terms, was invert the relationship between media and merchandise in a way that the industry would spend the next two decades trying to reproduce. The catalog did not sell the clothes. The clothes were the receipt for having bought into the catalog. A customer paid $39.50 for a polo in 1998 not because the polo was worth $39.50 but because the polo was the cheapest available ticket into the pages of the book.

That is the first thing any price comparison has to account for, because the 1998 price was a bundle. It contained a heavyweight cotton garment made to a specification that did not have to justify itself on cost, and it contained a cultural premium that the company manufactured in print and in its own stores, which were dark, loud, scented, and staffed by people hired for how they looked. Strip either half of the bundle away and the price has to fall, and over the following decade Abercrombie stripped away both.

I have argued for years that publishing and commerce eventually converge into a single operation, and the Quarterly was an early case study in an otherwise stale, late-90s apparel industry. A&F’s leadership understood it before anyone had a name for it. The editorial product set the price of the physical product, and when the editorial product disappeared, the pricing power disappeared with it.

The price that never moved

The comparison below uses the catalog prices I remember from the 1998 and 1999 issues of the Quarterly, which I have marked as approximate, against current list prices on abercrombie.com. The inflation factor is the Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price index, which has roughly doubled since 1998, so I have used 1.95 as the multiplier. The point of the table is the last column.

Item 1998 catalog price (approx.) 1998 price in 2026 dollars 2026 list price Real change
Classic polo $39.50 $77 $45 -42%
Five-pocket jean $59.50 $116 $90 -22%
Graphic tee $24.50 $48 $30 -38%
Cargo short $39.50 $77 $60 -22%
Hooded sweatshirt $49.50 $97 $70 -28%
Rugby shirt $59.50 $116 $80 -31%

Every item on the list got cheaper in real terms, and the polo, which was the company’s signature garment and the one most tightly bound to the brand’s identity, got cheaper by the most. The nominal prices tell a story of modest increases over 28 years. The real prices tell a story of a company that quietly conceded somewhere between a fifth and two fifths of its pricing power and recovered the margin elsewhere.

The table also understates the gap. In 1998 the list price was the price. Then-CEO Mike Jeffries ran the company on the principle that Abercrombie did not discount, and the stores were built to make the customer feel that paying full price was itself part of the experience. Today the list price is an anchor. The company runs on a promotional cadence in which 25 to 40 percent off is the normal clearing level for most of the assortment, which means the realized price of a polo is closer to $30 than $45. Put that against the $77 that the 1998 polo represents in today’s money and the real discount is not 42 percent. It is closer to 60.

So the question is not whether Abercrombie got cheaper, since it plainly did, but how a company can take that much price out of a product and remain, by the measure of the last three years of earnings, one of the best-run specialty retailers in America. The answer is in the factories, and the company was kind enough to publish it.

What the factory list says

Abercrombie & Fitch Co. publishes an annual Active Supplier List, and the 2026 edition, updated on August 24, covers every Tier 1 factory the company uses along with 90 percent of its fabric mills and trim suppliers. I spent an afternoon with it to answer a narrow question: how much did the product itself change, as distinct from the price, and what in the supply chain explains the change? The list runs to 254 cut-and-sew factories, 86 fabric mills, 110 trim suppliers, and 12 personal care fillers, and it answers the question more directly than any earnings call has.

The first finding is geographic. Vietnam hosts 66 of the 254 Tier 1 factories, India 50, Cambodia 49, and Indonesia 30, which together account for 77 percent of the base. China, which most people assume is where American apparel is made, accounts for 13 factories, or five percent. Sri Lanka adds another 13, Bangladesh and Egypt seven apiece, and the remainder is scattered across Turkey, Guatemala, the Philippines, Jordan, Mexico, and Spain. In 1998 a meaningful share of Abercrombie’s production still came out of Mexico, the Caribbean Basin under the 807 tariff provisions, and domestic converters in the Carolinas and Los Angeles. None of that survives. The company’s cut-and-sew footprint has migrated entirely to the lowest-cost English-speaking and Better Work geographies in Asia, and the Western Hemisphere exists in the list only as a rounding error.

The second finding is upstream, and it is the one that matters for the tariff conversation. China is a bit player in sewing but it dominates materials. Of the 86 fabric mills on the list, 55 are Chinese. Of the 110 trim suppliers, 40 are Chinese. India is a distant second in both categories. So the garment that leaves Ho Chi Minh City or Phnom Penh with a Vietnamese or Cambodian label is, in the majority of cases, Chinese fabric sewn with Chinese thread and closed with Chinese zippers. This is how the company captured two arbitrages at once: Southeast Asian labor on the sewing floor and Chinese scale on the mill floor. It is also why the Section 301 and reciprocal tariff regimes of the last two years landed harder on Abercrombie’s cost structure than its Tier 1 country mix would suggest.

The third finding is structural, and it is the one that explains how a company with 254 factories manages to run them at all, which is that Abercrombie does not manage factories so much as it manages the agents who do.

Sourcing agent Tier 1 factories managed Share of base
Asmara International Limited 95 37%
Winner Business Limited 45 18%
Broadway Industry and Commerce Dev. Co. 29 11%
DSI Global Sourcing and Orient Trading (DSI Korea) 44 17%
Direct, no agent 41 16%

Four agent groups control 213 of the 254 Tier 1 sites, and Asmara alone touches more than a third of everything the company sells. An agent of that size aggregates volume across dozens of brands, negotiates fabric and capacity on a scale no single retailer can match, carries the compliance and audit burden, and takes a commission that is far smaller than the cost of an in-house sourcing organization capable of doing the same work. The 1998 company bought from vendors it knew. The 2026 company buys from intermediaries who know vendors, and the difference in overhead is a direct contribution to the margin that funds the lower real price.

The vendor groups underneath the agents are the names you would expect. Vinatex, the Vietnamese state-linked textile conglomerate, operates ten of the factories. Sae-A, the Korean group, operates nine across Vietnam and Indonesia. Shahi Exports and Richaco in India operate seven each, Hansoll seven, Hirdaramani five in Sri Lanka, and Makalot, Gokaldas, and Crystal four apiece. These are the largest and most capable garment manufacturers in the world, and they are capable precisely because they run at a scale and a cost discipline that an American converter in 1998 could not have imagined. Most of the sites run between 500 and 1,500 workers, and only nine employ more than 5,000.

The fourth finding is the one that connects the supply chain back to the garment, and it is the one the list does not state directly but makes impossible to miss. When a company moves from vendors it knows to agents who know vendors, it stops specifying the product and starts specifying the cost. The agent is handed a target landed price and a silhouette, and the agent’s job is to hit the price.

Fabric weight comes down because a lighter cotton costs less per garment, construction simplifies because every operation on the line is a labor cost, and cotton gives way to cotton blends because polyester is cheaper per yard and the blend survives the wash test.

These decisions are made in Hong Kong and Seoul by people whose compensation depends on the target rather than in New Albany by people whose compensation depends on the brand, and the cumulative effect over 25 years is a polo that weighs two-thirds of what it did and costs the company perhaps a third.

The one category where the list shows the opposite pattern is instructive. Eleven of the twelve personal care fillers are in the United States, in New Jersey, Illinois, and New York, because fragrance is a category where the formulation is the product and the cost of the fill is trivial. Where the company could not take cost out of the product without destroying it, the supply chain stayed home.

What the 1998 polo would cost today

The honest way to answer that question is to find a garment that did not change and see what happened to its price, and last October I built the Polo Index around exactly that garment.

The Ralph Lauren cotton polo is the same shirt it was in 1998, with the same pique, the same weight, the same two-button placket, and the same pony. The index tracked it from 2012 to 2025 against the average technical-fabric dress shirt from the performance brands, Mizzen+Main and Ministry of Supply among them, that spent that decade arguing that stretch would replace starch and that cotton was the past. The point of the index was to measure cultural inflation rather than economic inflation, and it turns out to be the right instrument for Abercrombie as well, because it isolates the one variable Abercrombie changed and Ralph Lauren did not.

The Ralph Lauren polo went from roughly $60 in 2012 to roughly $125 in 2025, a 2.1-times increase over 13 years, while the technical shirt went from $98 to $133. The ratio between them collapsed from 1.63 to 1.06. Cotton did not get cheaper to make over that period; the fiber rose about 51 percent. What Ralph Lauren did was hold the specification, take the price, and let the culture catch up, and the culture did. A $125 cotton polo reads today as an investment in permanence while the performance shirt reads as the fast fashion of professionals. That is the Polo Index finding in one sentence: when a brand refuses to change the product, the price can rise at twice the rate of inflation, and the customer will thank it.

Abercrombie is the mirror image of that control group, and putting the two polos side by side on the index’s own timeline makes the divergence stark.

In 2012, the Abercrombie polo listed at roughly $40 and the Ralph Lauren polo at $60, a ratio of 1.5, while in 2025 the Abercrombie polo lists at $45 and the Ralph Lauren polo at $125, a ratio of 2.8.

Over the same 13 years in which Ralph Lauren doubled its price by holding the garment constant, Abercrombie held its price nearly constant by changing the garment, and the market now prices two shirts that sat 100 feet apart in the same mall in 1998 as products from different categories.

Apply the Ralph Lauren discipline to the 1998 Abercrombie polo and the answer falls out. The 1998 price of $39.50 scaled by the consumer price index gives $77, and that is the floor: the cost of the heavyweight cotton garment alone, with fiber and labor and freight marked to today. The Polo Index says the ceiling is higher, because Ralph Lauren’s price outran inflation by a wide margin once the market began paying for texture and permanence, and the 1998 Abercrombie polo was built from the same pique at the same weight. A company that had held that specification and held the no-discount posture the Quarterly was built to support would be sitting somewhere between $77 and the Ralph Lauren $125 today, which I would call $95 to $110. Against the $30 the company actually realizes on a promoted polo in 2026, the gap is three to three and a half times.

The index also explains where the savings sat, because they were not in the fiber. Cotton rose 51 percent over 13 years, roughly in line with inflation, and the Cotlook A index in real terms is lower today than it was in 1998. What Abercrombie saved by leaving heavyweight cotton was the weight of the garment, the number of sewing operations, and the mill capacity needed to produce a 7-ounce pique rather than a 5-ounce blend. The savings were in the specification, and the specification is what an agent with a cost target is paid to erode. The Polo Index framed cotton and technical fabric as two worldviews, permanence and craft on one side and optimization and convenience on the other, and Abercrombie, in its sourcing decisions if not in its marketing, chose the second one in the years after the Quarterly closed and has never looked back.

The same arithmetic applies down the assortment. The $59.50 jean becomes $116 in today’s money, which is roughly where a heavyweight selvedge jean from a mid-market brand sits now, and the $49.50 hooded sweatshirt becomes $97, the price of the heavyweight fleece that Reigning Champ and the better collegiate licensees still charge, brands that appear in the Polo Index as the cotton-heritage labels golf and tennis are now borrowing from. The 1998 Abercrombie price list, adjusted for inflation and nothing else, reads like the price list of a premium American cotton brand in 2026, which is what the company was before it became something else, and the factory list is the record of the transaction.

What the discount bought

It’s easy to read all of this as decline, but it isn’t. The company that charged $77 in today’s money for a polo in 1998 did about $800 million in revenue, served one customer in one register, and depended entirely on a cultural premium that a single editor and a single photographer manufactured four times a year. The company that charges $45 today does roughly $5 billion, sells through 889 stores and a digital channel that did not exist, and no longer needs anyone’s permission to be cool. Fran Horowitz’s Abercrombie is a better business than Mike Jeffries’ Abercrombie by every measure that matters to a shareholder, and the real-price cut is the mechanism by which it got there. Lower prices widened the customer base, the wider base justified the agent model, the agent model funded the lower prices, and the loop has run for a decade.

What was lost is harder to put on a balance sheet. The Quarterly was a publication that happened to sell clothes, and for six years it was the most effective piece of commerce media in America. The company gave it up under pressure, then gave up the pricing posture it supported, then gave up the product specification that made the pricing posture defensible, and each concession was rational on its own terms. The factory list is simply the ledger of where those concessions were booked, in the 195 factories across Vietnam, India, Cambodia, and Indonesia, in the Chinese mills and trim houses that feed them, and in the four agents in Hong Kong and Seoul who hold 84 percent of the sewing.

The lesson for anyone building a brand with pricing power is the Ralph Lauren one. Pricing power lives in the specification, and the specification lives wherever the sourcing decisions are made. The moment those decisions leave the building, the price follows them out, and the brand spends the next 25 years explaining to its customers why the shirt is cheaper and lighter than the one they remember. Abercrombie made that trade knowingly and has been rewarded for it. The customer who still has a 1999 polo in the back of a drawer knows what the trade cost.

Research and Analysis by Web Smith

Deep Dive: The Business of Fest

On Friday night in September, a famed rapper, producer, designer, and provocateur closed a two-night stand at Soldier Field with a set that ran past three hours: sixty songs, fifteen guests, seventy thousand people, sold out. Billboard’s description was that he “threw his own festival.”

There was no presenting sponsor on the poster. There was no Live Nation or AEG behind it; the U.S. dates are run as spot stadium shows by a touring company called IKON Presents rather than as a routed tour. There was no wristband, no brand village, no layaway plan. There was a man, a spinning globe, and a catalog.

I have spent the better part of a few months working alongside festival operators and researching the industry: in pitch rooms, in commerce architecture reviews, and in the conversations that happen after the press release goes out and the P&L gets explained. The industry spent 2026 arguing with itself about whether the festival still works as a business. Meanwhile, the largest festival of the summer, by any honest accounting, had one name on it (and very little promotion).

That contradiction is the story. Here is the good, the bad, and the ugly of the festival business as it actually operates, followed by who is succeeding, who is performing success (you know the types), and what a rapper the industry spent three years refusing to book just proved about the persisting demand of good music.

I. The Good

Start where the industry starts: the records.

Live Nation’s second quarter was the largest in its history. Revenue was nearly $7.7 billion, up 9 percent. A record 49 million fans were serviced, up 10 percent. One hundred forty-three million tickets were sold through mid-July, 14 million ahead of last year’s pace. Event-related deferred revenue of $6.4 billion; this was up 25 percent, the largest balance the company has ever carried into a summer. And ninety-five percent of the year’s sponsorship was booked before the Fourth of July.

Coachella, which took most of a month to sell its first weekend in 2024 and ran roughly 120,000 per weekend in 2025, moved its lineup announcement to September, put Justin Bieber, Sabrina Carpenter, Karol G, and Anyma on the poster, and sold out both weekends in three or four days. Gov Ball sold out at 150,000 with more than thirty brand partners. Lollapalooza drew 460,000 people to Grant Park last summer, 56 percent of them from out of town, and paid the Chicago Park District more than $10 million in rent for the privilege.

None of that is the interesting part. The interesting part is the segment table.

Live Nation’s Concerts segment produced $6.4 billion of revenue in the quarter and $310 million of adjusted operating income (down 14 percent). Ticketing produced $852 million and $331 million in all. Sponsorship and advertising produced $383 million of revenue and $257 million of AOI. Do the division: roughly a 5 percent margin on the show, 39 percent on the ticket, and 67 percent on the brand deal. The company said, in its filing, that festivals and venues drove 70 percent of the sponsorship growth, and that the count of strategic partners paying more than $1 million a year grew by more than 20 percent.

The show is the traffic and the brand deal is the product.

That is not a Live Nation quirk; it is the shape of the entire category. IEG’s 2025 sector report counted more than $169 million in sponsorship rights fees across just 39 U.S. music festivals, from 380-plus brands across 975-plus deals, and that figure excludes activation budgets, media buys, and endorsements, which is where the real money goes. Spirits and beer alone were nearly a quarter of it. Coca-Cola was on 54 percent of the festivals analyzed. And ESP projects North American music sponsorship spend north of $1.5 billion in 2026, growing faster than sports.

Gov Ball’s head of partnerships, Alex Joffe, told Pollstar in June that the festival’s sponsorship business is “eight figures annually.” Its individual brand activations host five to twenty thousand people over a weekend, and he described the sponsorship program as the largest production on site apart from the stages themselves. Read that again. The largest thing built at Gov Ball, other than the stages, is the part the fan didn’t pay for.

I have written for years that media and commerce converge until the publication and the storefront become one operation.

The festival was the first, physical version of that convergence. It is a media property that happens to sell tickets; it’s an eCommerce company first – not a music business. And the operators who understood that early are the ones printing. It’s not irony that the aforementioned provocateur also maintains one of Shopify’s best performing storefronts.

II. The Bad

Two things sit underneath the records: a cost stack that repriced after 2020 and never came back, and a fan who is being financed to cover it. We live in a new day.

The cost stack. Talent now consumes 40 to 50 percent of a mid-sized festival’s budget, up from 25 to 30 percent a decade ago, with artist fees up 30 to 40 percent since 2020. Those are industry estimates rather than audited numbers, but they match every conversation I have had this year. Bieber reportedly took roughly $10 million for two Coachella sets, the most ever paid to a performer there. Production is up 30 to 40 percent on pre-pandemic. Insurance premiums are up 16 to 25 percent since 2022, and cancellation coverage, the single largest insurance line, is the hardest to buy. Deposits run 50 percent on signing and the balance before doors.

Follow the cash: the money leaves in January and the tickets arrive in May. And every year the fan buys later.

The demand underneath the records. Pollstar’s mid-year report is the document I would hand anyone who thinks the top of the market is fine. The top 100 worldwide tours grossed a record $3.16 billion, up 12.3 percent, on a record 26.3 million tickets. But North American gross per show fell 7.8 percent to $1.14 million. The North American average ticket fell 2.4 percent to $122. Stadium tours dropped from eighteen to eleven. Global grosses rose 12.3 percent; North America rose 0.1 percent. The records were set by adding shows and going abroad, not by pricing power at home. Live Nation’s own attendance tells the same story: international up 22.3 percent, North America slightly down, on roughly 5 percent more North American events.

The financed fan. In 2025, roughly 60 percent of Coachella’s general-admission buyers bought on the festival’s payment plan, up from 18 percent when the program launched in 2009. The plan starts at $49.99 down. The enrollment fee, around $41, multiplied across roughly 100,000 attendees, throws off more than $4 million before a single tent is pitched, and it is split between the ticketing company and the promoter.

A booking source told Billboard that fans are carrying four or five festival payment plans at once, and that the pitch has become: you can afford this if you act today.

The down payment is basically the product launch, at this point in time.

At the other end of the ladder, Bonnaroo returned this June after last year’s weather cancellation with a price sheet that runs from $389 for general admission to $899 for VIP, $3,995 for Platinum, and $27,500 for a two-person “Roo Insider” package with front-of-stage viewing, a private golf cart, and an air-conditioned safari tent. Live Nation reports premium revenue roughly 75 percent higher at its newly opened amphitheaters and onsite food and beverage spend up high single digits.

That is the barbell: a $49.99 down payment on one end, a $27,500 tent on the other, and a hollowing middle. It is the bifurcation of the entire industry expressed at the level of a single buyer.

Understand payment plans for what they are; they are not a consumer perk. They are a working-capital instrument that pulls next spring’s cash into this fall, precisely when the artist deposits come due. Which is also why “sold out” no longer means what it meant in 2012.

III. The Ugly

The Association of Independent Festivals counted 78 UK festivals cancelled, postponed, or closed in 2024, a record. Forty-three followed in 2025. Twenty more fell by June 10 of this year. That is 141 festivals gone in thirty months, against a base of 592 UK music festivals counted last year. AIF’s own CEO says audience demand is strong and sellouts are common; the problem is that independent margins have gone to zero.

Then there is Bluesfest.

Byron Bay Bluesfest ran for 36 years. Three weeks before its April dates, it cancelled and entered liquidation. The liquidator’s report to Australia’s securities regulator found the company owed more than $23 million to over 20,000 ticket holders, plus $5.7 million to Stripe and PayPal, against roughly $28,000 in the bank.

Ticket holders are now just unsecured creditors; the liquidator will them not to expect a refund.

The state of New South Wales is trying to claw back the $500,000 it advanced from a festival-viability fund. The stated reasons were rising production, logistics, insurance, and touring costs, plus softer demand. The real story is simpler: the festival was financed by its audience. When advance sales are your working capital, the fan is your lender, and the fan is unsecured.

Music On Amsterdam sold all 20,000 tickets and was cancelled about an hour before doors on May 9, after the city revoked the permit over a tent structure that differed from the approved plans. Damages run into the millions. Wireless, London’s rap festival, cancelled all three nights on April 7 because its headliner lost his UK entry authorization. A festival that had sold three nights of tickets was, in the end, one visa.

The United States has no official tracker, which is its own kind of tell.

The most-cited aggregator logged about 107 cancellations worldwide in 2025 and 52 by early September this year; by my count of that list, roughly thirty and twenty-eight of those were American. Faster Horses, a Live Nation country festival that drew 40,000, sat out a second straight year. Summer Camp in Illinois cited a third-party provider’s finances. Bender Jamboree in Las Vegas cited economic instability. Chicago’s Michelada Fest said plainly that it did not have the capital of the larger players to absorb the pressures. Even Breakaway, the healthiest independent in the country, cut its Northern California market.

The stated reasons are weather and permits. The underlying reasons are talent cost, later-buying fans, zero margin, and the stadium tour vacuuming up the same wallet. Ye’s two nights at Soldier Field took roughly 140,000 tickets’ worth of Chicago’s discretionary music spend in 48 hours. Every festival within driving distance will feel that for months.

IV. Who Is Succeeding, Who Is Faking

Three models are working and five things are being performed.

Succeeding

The sponsorship machine. Live Nation and its C3 festivals are not in the ticket business; they are in the brand business, and the ticket is customer acquisition. Gov Ball is a media company with a stage. Its retention rates, not its lineup, are its moat. Again, it’s all eCommerce at this point.

The capitalized independent with a flywheel. Breakaway started in Ohio and grew from roughly $15 million in revenue in 2022 to nearly $70 million in 2025, drawing more than 300,000 fans across twelve markets. In March, it closed a $30 million Series B at a “nine-figure valuation,” bringing total capital raised to roughly $50 million. CELSIUS is its presenting sponsor for a third consecutive year, and the company says its sponsorship business has grown about twenty-fold since 2016. The format is disciplined enough: a two-day, 15,000-per-day event that costs about $3 million to produce, aimed at a 26-year-old who lives within sixty miles. Around it sits a label and management arm, pop-up events, digital media, and a fan merch-design competition that feeds the online store that earns about $1 million in Breakaway merchandise sales per year.

The production kit amortizes across a dozen dates instead of one weekend, the audience sleeps in its own bed instead of a $1,000 hotel, sponsors renew across a season, and the merch margin stays in the building. But what it does not fix: the company is still financed by advance ticket sales and still exposed one market at a time, which is what the Sacramento cut tells you. The difference between Breakaway and Bluesfest is not the model. Rather, it is the balance sheet.

The artist as festival. At Coachella this April, Bieber’s Skylrk brand did $5.04 million in on-site sales during weekend one and roughly $15 million across both weekends including online, against a prior artist-merch record at the festival of $1.7 million. Bieber owns Skylrk outright; Goldenvoice got a headliner. When the artist owns the merch, the media, and the moment, the festival becomes the venue, and venues collect rent, not margin. Ye took that logic to its conclusion by skipping the festival entirely. More on him in a moment.

Faking

The economic-impact study. California’s governor’s office says Coachella and Stagecoach generate more than $700 million a year for the state and $908 million in “media impact value.” The regional business press promptly pointed out that the math leans on general Palm Springs visitor data rather than anything specific to festival attendees. Impact studies are lobbying documents. They measure the city’s exposure, not the promoter’s profit, and they are invariably released the week the rent is negotiated.

“Sold out.” When 60 percent of the room is on a payment plan and the enrollment fee pays out before the show, sold out is a financing milestone, not a demand signal. The question to ask any operator announcing it is the default rate.

The market-size report. Depending on the vendor, the U.S. festival market is $3.8 billion, $4.4 billion, or $5.7 billion, and will reach some larger number by 2035. Nobody who runs a festival uses these numbers. They exist to be cited in decks by people who don’t.

The presenting-sponsor logo without the activation. IEG’s $169 million is rights fees only. The brands that renew, Coca-Cola on half the festivals in the country, Jack Daniel’s with two dozen deals in a year, are buying first-party data and content, not signage. A festival whose sponsor deck is a logo sheet is one budget cycle from losing the category.

The touring copy without the capital. Every mid-sized promoter in America is now pitching “Breakaway for [genre].” The touring model transfers risk from weather to working capital. Without the Series B, it does not reduce insolvency; it distributes it across more zip codes.

V. The Overblown Hip Hop Backlash

Believe it or not, some festival owners despise certain demographics.

Since 2022 the live-music industry has priced hip-hop as a risk category. Astroworld in 2021, the YSL racketeering case, the Diddy trial, Lil Durk currently on trial in a murder-for-hire case, and Ye’s own three-year unraveling gave every insurer, sponsor, and booker a reason to flinch.

The flinch showed up in the lineups.

Coachella’s 2026 headliners were a pop star, a pop star, a reggaeton star, and an electronic act. Wireless, London’s rap festival, did not happen at all. Pepsi and Rockstar backed away from Ye within days of his first U.S. show. Governments in Switzerland, Poland, France, and the United Kingdom blocked dates; a St. Petersburg stadium refused to sign the rental agreement. The “hip-hop is in decline” narrative that has run through the trades for three years is, at bottom, an institutional story: harder to insure, harder to sponsor, harder to book.

Then look at what the consumer did.

Two nights at SoFi Stadium in early April generated $33 million in ticket sales, per Bloomberg, and the second night alone grossed $18 million, the highest single-show gross by a rapper in the history of the business. Reports had more than a million people in the queue for those tickets. Istanbul drew 118,000 on May 30, the largest crowd of his career. The Alamodome show grossed about $9 million and pushed San Antonio hotel bookings up 22 percent. The Tampa Sports Authority cleared $3.44 million on his night at Raymond James. Madrid sold 85 percent of its presale within hours. Mexico City sold 70,000 tickets across two nights within hours. Chicago sold 140,000 across two nights.

Now look at the structure. There is no routed tour; these are spot dates. There is no Live Nation and no AEG: IKON Presents runs the U.S. shows, and a Mexican promoter, 515 Entertainment, took him to Madrid with local partners. There is no brand on the poster. The one layer he could not escape is Ticketmaster, which tells you where the actual monopoly sits. Everything else is gate plus merch, which makes this the cleanest demand test in music: no sponsor subsidy, no festival halo, no duopoly marketing machine. Fans at Soldier Field lined up from eight in the morning, in a heat advisory, for merch.

The second night of the Chicago show was the hip-hop festival that the leaders of the industry would not book.

Chief Keef, who spent most of a decade unable to perform in his own city, did “I Don’t Like” live for the first time since 2016. Young Thug, months off his own case, was on stage. Ye played Lil Durk’s “All My Life” as a salute to a man mid-trial. Lupe Fiasco, Common, Twista, Really Doe, GLC, Consequence, CyHi: the entire Chicago lineage. Travis Scott and Don Toliver. Big Sean and 2 Chainz on both nights. And Kid Cudi, after years of very public feuding, on “Father Stretch My Hands Pt. 1” and “Ghost Town.” The last time that Ye was at Soldier Field, in 2021, he set fire to a replica of his childhood home. This time he brought the neighborhood.

The fight that followed is the whole industry in miniature. Peter Rosenberg, a New York radio host, posted that he was disappointed in the artists who joined a man who released a song called “Heil H*****” a year ago, and that forgiveness should require sitting down for a few years first. Cudi answered: “That man is my brother.” He said he had been harder on Ye than anyone, had held him accountable, and found the apology sincere.

Both of them are describing something true; the culture is still litigating forgiveness. But it seems that the consumer (and key pieces of entertainment infrastructure) has already voted. That is not a contradiction; it is the exact split the business has been living inside for three years. The gatekeepers, radio, festival bookers, sponsors, immigration offices, are the backlash. But, perhaps, the consumer never left.

I am not adjudicating the moral question, and I would distrust anyone who used a gross figure to do so. The Wall Street Journal apology, the bipolar disclosure, the swastika shirts, and the song are all real, and the backlash had real costs: five European markets, a British festival, every corporate partner he had. Ye is also sui generis, a 24-time Grammy winner with 160 million records sold, and no promoter should model the next rap headliner on him.

But the commercial argument stands on its own. If the most radioactive name in music can sell 118,000 tickets in Istanbul and 140,000 in Chicago with no brand, no festival, and no Live Nation, then the rap headliner the festivals stopped booking is not a demand problem. It is a supply problem, a risk-pricing problem, and mispriced risk is the definition of an opportunity. The backlash against hip-hop was never a story about audiences. It was a story about institutions that decided they could not afford to be wrong, and are now discovering what it costs to be certain.

VI. What the Fest Is Now

Five things I believe after a months inside this business.

The festival is a media property. Its only margin is sponsorship and its ticket is just monetized site traffic. Operators who price the ticket as the product will keep losing to operators who price the audience as the product.

The fan is the lender. Payment plans are working capital and the enrollment fee is a product. The unsecured creditor holding a worthless Bluesfest ticket and the 22-year-old carrying five festival plans are the same person at different points on the curve.

The artist can be the festival. Skylrk’s $15 million and Ye’s spot-date stadium run prove the venue is now the commodity. A festival that cannot offer an artist more than a stage and a fee will lose that artist to his own storefront.

Independence is a balance-sheet question. Breakaway and Bluesfest ran versions of the same fan-financed model. One raised $30 million; one had $28,000 in the bank. The model did not decide the outcome.

Hip-hop’s live demand is undersupplied. Whoever prices that risk correctly first, a promoter, a touring festival, a beverage brand looking for the next CELSIUS-and-Breakaway, gets the next decade’s Gov Ball. Everyone else gets a lineup poster with four names on it and a payment plan to move it.

The industry built its business on the idea that the poster is the product. Ye just sold 140,000 tickets in Chicago to a poster with one name on it, and the name was the one nobody would sponsor.

Research and Analysis by Web Smith 

Sources: Live Nation Q1 and Q2 2026 filings and releases; Pollstar mid-year 2026 business analysis; IEG 2025 U.S. Music Festivals Sector Report; Billboard reporting on Coachella payment plans and Ye’s Chicago shows; Association of Independent Festivals; The Guardian’s coverage of the Bluesfest liquidator’s report; Inc. and Fortune on Breakaway; Vogue Business on Skylrk; Bloomberg on Ye’s SoFi grosses; Complex, Consequence, and ABC7 Chicago on Soldier Field.